Church

Why I Invited Imam Feisal to be Interviewed at Q

by Gabe Lyons

Albert Einstein said, “The free, unhampered exchange of ideas and scientific conclusions is necessary for the sound development of science, as it is in all spheres of cultural life.” Einstein spoke accurately about both science and culture. If we as Christians desire to be involved in the creation and development of culture, we need to be willing to enter into the free exchange of ideas that are already happening around us.

At Q, we’ve set out to bring pressing cultural conversations into a space where they can be viewed and critiqued through the lens of the Gospel. Because we believe in the power of that Gospel and the ability of God’s word to “rightly divide truth,” we’ve never been afraid to make space for new and even different ideas at our gatherings.

As our team was planning this year’s gathering in Portland, we were drawn to address the heightened tension among Christians and Muslims in America. Debates rage between our faith communities, and they aren’t going away. Recent events such as Terry Jones’ Koran burning and the “Ground Zero Mosque” discussion have only exacerbated them.

That is why I decided to interview Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the “Ground Zero Mosque” at Q this year. Soundbytes may serve the purposes of network news shows, but thoughtful Christians need to engage these issues through serious dialogue. In our time together, I’ll be seeking to understand what he believes and why. We’re going to discuss many of his views that some might call “radical,” and I’ll ask him how he plans to square those with the larger American culture.

Many who don’t like or agree with Imam Feisal’s positions have questioned this decision. They believe my invitation is a tacit approval for all the Imam’s views and beliefs. But let us not forget that listening to one share his or her ideas is not the same as endorsing them.

We are at a troubling place in American Christianity. Today, many followers of Jesus on both the left and right are content to withdraw to their respective echochambers where liberals become more liberal and conservatives become more conservative, but neither seems to be thinking more Christianly. Because Q is neither conservative nor liberal, we’ve attempted to transcend this approach to dialogue by creating a place where both sides might engage.

The longer I live the more I’m inspired by the life of Jesus and the way He was able to sit down and converse with people who were so unlike him. Of course, He was also the One who said that being a child of the Father means learning to love your neighbors and your enemies. I’ve thought often about this incredible statement over the years. I can’t imagine what this could possibly mean if it doesn’t include having respectful dialogue where we listen and respond rather than dismiss and attack.

When it comes to Q, I don’t make a lot of promises. I won’t promise that you’ll like or even agree with every idea you encounter at our gatherings, in our books or on our web site. But I can promise that the Gospel will saturate all we do, every decision will be made prayerfully, and we will continue to promote a rigorous exchange of ideas. Free and unhampered.

Comments

DrewPop

Not sure you needed to explain "why". Seems to me that the people that would question this decision must be the same people that question the whole idea of Q in the first place. I say to the team, "well done!"

Brian

Thanks for the note, Gabe. I agree with you DrewPop. I hear the negative comments re: why I would expose myself to much of the "stuff" at Q and this type of explanation is helpful. We need more of this type of dialogue. Thanks for doing what you are doing Q Teamthanks for continuing to help us be better prepared to engage effectively the culture around us with The Gospel.

Brian

Amos Allen

Thanks, Gabe, and yet the very idea of Q makes inviting the Imam what we expect. To not would be unQish. (If you can write "Christianly," I can write "unQish.")

Steve

Why are we so afraid to speak with instead of to, those with world views which do not match our own? Truth will stand.

If there is a danger in this type of dialogue, however, it might be the unwitting assumption that he, or any imam, speaks for all of Islam. His views are controversial not just ot us in the west, but also to many of his Muslim brothers as well. Some care must be taken to distinguish between his views and those of historical, orthodox Islam as it is and has been practiced.

Nathan F. Elmore

This is an important explanation -- from those on the inside to those looking on from the outside. It seems almost inherently obvious that any thoughtful inhabitor/creator/developer of culture would see dialogue as a bridge to and from the world of ideas and communities, including religious ones. In this pressing case, to dialogue is certainly better than to not (i.e. to stay in fear or ignorance, witting or unwitting, or to entrench willfully). Chawkat Moucarry, WorldVision's international director of interfaith relations, calls dialogue something profoundly more significant than mere verbal engagement -- it's a way of life that opens us up to welcome and receive the other.

Bravo, Q, indeed this sort of hospitality in having this sort of conversation seems inspired by the Man who is the Gospel, whose hospitality is at the heart of reconciliation and peacemaking. There is nothing to fear, and wearing the disposition of both host and guest there is usually so much to learn. Thanks for constructing a bridge. I believe this particular bridge -- Christian to Muslim -- is one of the worthiest cultural creations of our present age.

In late 2007, as a pastor in a university setting in Clemson, SC, I hosted a similar interfaith conversation with a Muslim friend of mine and leader at the local mosque. We talked openly, in an interview format, in the middle of our Christian worship gathering on a Sunday morning -- with the bread and wine resting on a table right behind us. For more on this story and for more on the dialogue-in-friendship venture I direct as a campus minister in Richmond, VA, here's an article I wrote about the possibilities of such dialogues. I hope it's helpful.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=15791

Chuck Eaton

"We’re going to discuss many of his views that some might call “radical,” and I’ll ask him how he plans to square those with the larger American culture."

We should ask ourselves this very question every day! After all, what's more radical than Gods grace?

John M

I am reminded of Jesus' teaching. Jesus is challenged by a lawyer who asks what he should do to inherit eternal life. Jesus turns the tables on the dude and asks him what the Scriptures say. He responds, "Love God ... and love your neighbor ..." Jesus says, "Great, you got it. Do this and you will live."

"Ah," says the lawyer, "but just who is my neighbor?"

And now Jesus really does a number on this poor guy, telling him a story about several higly religious people and, by contrast, a dirty, lousy, God forsaken Samaritan.

When Jesus asks the lawyer at the end of the story who was the neighbor, the model for being a neighbor, the poor lawyer could not say the word "Samaritan", but only, "the one who showed mercy."

Why did you speak with Imam Feisal? Because Jesus teaches us to love and serve our neighbors, every last one of them. No qualifications allowed !!!

David Neff

I have served Feisal Rauf on the National Interreligious Leadership Initiative for Peace in the Middle East. He has been a very cordial interlocutor in that context, and I learned to appreciate his ability to deal diplomatically with touch issues. Have a good interview at Q!

Scott Sabin

Nicely done, Gabe. Thank you and your team for your leadership.

I wish I could be there.

anonymous

While I believe in dialogue to learn and understand the ways of different people groups, I think it is VERY important to remember that those associated with the taliban and people of the muslim faith whoare fundalmentalists and believe along those same lines are very, very, dangerous people. I am not saying that all muslim people are terrorists, but from what I have read, THIS group that Imam Feisal Rauf is associated with has those terrorists idelogies and ties. History repeats itself many people say, and I say if diplomacy wasn't sucessful with Hitler, it won't be sucessful here either.We need to be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves when it comes to terrorists. The only talk that can produce anything would be the talk of repentance and His willingness to let the saviour into his life. Thank GOD we as Christians(who are in our right minds) don't believe in murdering any and everyone who is not of our faith.

John Van Sloten

Just with our words.

Roberta

"I don't believe in religious dialogue."----Quote by Imam Rauf in Arabic, translated by former Muslim terrorist Walid Shoebat here: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/ground-zero-imam-i-dont-believe-in-religious-dialogue/?singlepage=true .

Imam Rauf's Cordoba Project is to bring Sharia-Islamic Law to America. He will use our laws and smooth talk to do it.

St. Francis of Assisi joined the Fifth Crusade. He was far from being a pacifist. His goal was the conversion of Muslims to The One True Faith, Christianity, and not simply "dialoging" as an end in itself. Source: 'St. Francis of Assisi and the Conversion of the Muslims.' Frank M. Rega. 2007. www.tanbooks.com .

Gabe et al., I will pray fervently to St. Francis to intercede for you; and I ask you to pray to the Holy Spirit for the words you need to say to Imam Rauf about salvation in Jesus Christ; about tolerance for Christians, and peace in Israel.

May God bless you.

Martha

Echo chamber is the perfect description. And I receive all the emails from said echo chamber. We are only listening to ourselves.

Jonathan

Roberta,

St. Francis can't hear you. He's dead.

Oh, and if you want to convince people that they should follow someone's example, don't start by talking about how that person joined the Crusades. Just a thought.

Wolfgang Fernandez

Gabe, you are absolutely correct in embracing the issue of Islam into Q. In the same way that the people of North Africa and other nations in the region are rebelling against a system that has made "shadow" enemies of Christians in order to keep them oppressed and subjugated to to autocratic rulers, Kingdom minded people in the US must rise up over the political game and see reality for what it is.

Islam is one of the three monotheistic faiths. We are all members of Abraham's broken family and as such we rediscover ways to reconnect and heal our brokenness.

The Holy Qur'an teaches that Isa Al Masih (Jesus the Messiah), who came with clear signs said "now I have come to you with wisdom and in order to make clear to you some of the points on which you dispute: therefore, fear Allah and obey me. For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: So worship Him: This is the straight way" Qur'an 43:63-64.

It is evident that there is common ground between the Qur'an and the Old Testament and New Testaments.

As Kingdom people let us lead our nation into the way of Jesus and let uphold the Great Commandment as our way of life.

Having Imam Rauf speak at this years Q Gathering is your tacit approval of terrorism. Numerous Imams and mullahs have explained, "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America and Islam is the ONLY accepted religion on earth". Imam Rauf himself has stated, "I don't believe in religious dialog". If you had taken the time to read the entire Quran and the hadiths, you would have read in many Suras that Muslims are required to kill infidels, that Jews are the descendants of monkeys and pigs, and that it is permissible to lie to protect and to promote Islam, two concepts called taqiyya and kitman. You ever so "open minded" folks were not in NYC on 9-11. I was. I saw the bloody dismembered bodies and body parts of my co-workers and friends splattered everywhere. I watched people whom I knew throw themselves from the roof of the 110 story World Trade Center buildingsin order to escape the flames. I saw hands, heads, feet, intestines, brains, eyes, arms and legs litter the offices and stair wells. Imam Rauf's book, "What is Right with Islam is What is Right with America" was published under another name outside of the United States. The title, "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11". "Dawa" means proselytism and proselytism means something quite different from the Christian concept of proselytism. It means conversion by any means necessary, including death. Imam Rauf would like to see all Jews exterminated and Israel wiped off the face of the earth. Imam Rauf thinks that Hitler was a good man. Islam means child brides of 6 years of age, female genital mutilation, beheadings, stonings of rape victims (and others), limbs chopped off as punishment, canings, beatings, imprisonment and death to all apostates. Perhaps our dear Mayor Sam Adams should be careful? Islam also means that homosexuals are to be executed, they don't get to run for political office. If this were the 1930's you would be having Adolf Hitler or Adolf Eichmann speak at the Q Gathering, you know to promote "understanding" and to have a "meaningful dialog". Golly gee whiz, what were we so afraid of? We should have spoken, understood and negotiated with Hitler, and that whole messy World War 2 thing and the Holocaust could have been avoided!

Links to some interesting websites: http://vimeo.com/16779150

http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=153

Bystander Ryan

I don't think some of the commenters actually took the time to read this article.

It's pretty apparent that the Imam is NOT "presenting" or delivering a speech. He is simply being interviewed/questioned about his view of Christianity and how he sees the Muslim faith in America. It's no different than if you were to run into a Muslim on the street (albeit an influential one) and you chose to talk with him about these same issues.

As someone who has lived and worked throughout the Middle East, as someone who has lived in the DEMOCRACY of Israel, as a native of New York City, and as a Christian, I protest having a man who supports terrorism and is building a shrine to terrorism in NYC. I HAVE read the article and just as I would have protested the racist, anti-Semitic policies of the Nazi's, I oppose the racism and anti-Semitic beliefs of this "man" and his "religion". Imam Raufs words are soothing and pap like in the United States, but outside of the US this man is an advocate of violent jihad against the unbelievers. Imam Rauf is using Islamic taqiyya/kitman when speaking to unbelievers, edicts of his religion that allow lying to infidels in order to protect and promote Islam when amongst the kuffar.

Watch these videos and tell me PLEASE why you would ask a "man" who supports the laws and religious injunctions that allow and encourage these abominations to speak?

http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=153

http://vimeo.com/16779150

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/03/here-is-fitna.html

Stephen Kinney

Thanks for this thoughtful post! Your way of thinking about all this seems right. It reminded me how easy it is to fall into a "monological" relation with the world, if only because it's hard to dialogue with others who are different. You got me thinking about how easy it is to divert my attention to righteous principles that blind me to the gift of the other as given.

When Christians say, “the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us,” I envision the word ("logos") becoming enfleshed (or embodied) in the very particular and ongoing conversations that we have with one another in our own time and place. In dia-log, then, the word emerges between us, through our words. We recognize it as a live person-to-person connection, when it happens. I’m thinking that this is “the thing itself.”

Longing for the person-to-person connection, I become my own worst enemy when I seek to connect at the level of mere agreement of beliefs. This involves conceptualizing others in terms of "what” they are and what they have to offer and then trying to get what I need or desire what they have or want. Yet the effort to set myself apart by what I have leaves me more alone than before and insecure about where I stand. To secure my place in the pecking order and get myself on the right side of the fence, it becomes dangerously easy to go along with the crowd in scapegoating some other person or thing in the name of God.

Bottom line: the risen Christ comes among us in disguise and speaks. Whatever it is that I hear, I try to make sense of it by talking and inquiring with others. What will I speak back? This approach requires real partnering with one another, welcoming our differences as possible gifts, which may enrich the whole Body of Christ.

Roberta

@ Jonathan. Your put down is discouraging. Please, let us practice Christian charity in our "dialogue." Catholics pray to saints. It's known as intercessory prayer.

Yes, St. Francis preached the gospel to the Muslims - at the risk of martyrdom - during a lull in the fighting of the Fifth Crusade. It's a fact that I am not ashamed of. Many, many people hold an admiration for St. Francis. The Crusaders were Christians whose cause was to take back Christian holy places that were captured by Muslims (known as Saracens at that time). To be ashamed of that is to be ashamed of Christ.

"Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."---Luke 9: 26

St. Francis's order, the Franciscans, are today custodians of the Holy Land, and have been since the 13th century.

CUSTODIANS OF THE HOLY LAND - http://www.custodia.org/

On Easter Sunday, every Catholic church in the world takes up a collection for them.

Hundreds of thousands of Franciscans have sacrificed their lives during periods of strife in the Holy Land.

Mark Ryan

Gabe,

Thank you for your explanation as to why you will be interviewing Imam Feisal. I trust that for those of us who cannot be present that you will publish your interview. I think the ability to hear (view) the exchange will go some way to vindicating your decision. Many thanks for all your efforts.

vaughan

The question has often been asked (and answered), "why didn't the Christians in Germany stand up to Hitler?"

A good question for us now is, how can we learn from history?

I agree with the Way of Jesus to love our enemies and to promote peace. But when we see those who promote injustice and a way of life totally antithetical to the Way of Jesus, to the extent that many people are suffering, then what is our duty as followers of the Way to stand up to this injustice? The prophets railed against those who stood by and watched the innocent suffer.

With a genuine heart, I ask Gabe and others, how should I respond when I see injustice? Am I only able to talk and pray?

I don't expect an answer here, but if one of the Q moderators would be kind to paste a couple of links to reasoned discussion on this topic I'd feel we are building bridges to those who appear to be speaking from within their own 'echochamber'.

V

Donna

I am deeply saddened by many of the comments that I read here. Some of the posts are obviously from hate-filled bigots spewing their mean-spirited comments like acid. It is easier to dismiss these comments as it is pointless to try to debate with people whose minds lay in a gutter of evil and hypocrisy. It is more painful to read anti-Islamic comments from what appears to me to be sincere, if ill-informed, posters. Verses taken out of context in the Qu'ran can be as misunderstood as verses taken out of context in the Bible. While this can be partially addressed if people will read all of the surrounding verses they are quoting and if they would also put things in the historical context just as we do with some of our Bible verses. It is more difficult to fight back against things posted on the internet and labeled as "the truth". The internet is a wonderful invention of our modern age and as a woman of 63 I find it a delight and it presents me with many wonderful gifts of information and entertainment. But it has a darker side. And that dark side is that everything written as truth is not and it is sometimes difficult on the surface to distinguish what is true and what is false. Imam Feisal (as well as his wife, Daisy Khan) have committed their lives to bringing peace and understanding between the Muslim and the non-Muslim world. Imam Feisal in particular has spent decades of his life working tirelessly (along with Christian and Jewish leaders) to bring people of all faith traditions together in compassion and love. He was working towards these goals long before there was the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque". For those who think Islam is a religion of war and hate, my guess is that those thoughts are based on the acts of the terrorists who claim to be Muslims - a tiny minority that no more represent Islam than members of the KKK represent Christianity - or the U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib represent the majority of our service men and women - or the law enforcement officials who attacked peaceful marchers during the 1950's in the South with water hoses and vicious dogs represent the U.S. government. I could go on with more examples, but do you see my point? Painting an entire group with the brush of an ignorant minority is not only wrong but it is morally repugnant. May I respectfully suggest that those who fear or hate either Imam Feisal or Muslims in general make an effort to call a Mosque near you, speak with a scholar-based Imam - ask questions, open a dialogue, befriend a Muslim and get to know them on an individual basis. Statistics prove that when people actually know Muslims their disapproval rating of Islam and Muslims plummets. And just a quick aside - do you know who has suffered most at the hands of Al-Qaida or the Taliban, do you know who these groups hate every bit as much as they hate the West? Sufi Muslims. My personal opinion of why is that Al-Qaida and the Taliban, as splinter groups claiming Islam, are the terrorists who would bring violence upon everyone they can't or don't dominate - the antithesis of the teachings in the Qu'ran. Sufis on the other hand are tolerant, mystical, peace-loving. For the terrorists to succeed with their evil goals, anyone not believing as they do must be destroyed. Imam Feisal is a Sufi. And it would do well for everyone who vilifies him to remember that fact. We had all better find a way to get along and embrace the fact that we are ALL brothers and sisters. Our God is a God of diversity - it behooves us to lay down our need for exclusivity.

Roberta

@ Donna. I am not an uninformed person. I have, in fact, tried to work with a Muslim male leader, calling him by phone at his mosque; he was expecting my calling him. He was unwilling to work with me because I am a female. He chose to work with my male counterpart. Another male refused to shake my hand due to their custom of oppressing women. Female Muslims shop along side me. I smile always whenever I can get eye contact.

You sound just like the type of Muslim most Americans fear: you want to be the dominate religion! You are making veiled threat: "We had all better..." and "it would do well for everyone". You also wrote that posters here who do not want a mosque at Ground Zero are "obviously from hate-filled bigots spewing their mean-spirited comments like acid. It is easier to dismiss these comments as it is pointless to try to debate with people whose minds lay in a gutter of evil and hypocrisy."

We were attacked on 9/11. Never forget.

Thanks for giving us an example of a meaningless "dialogue."

Donna

@ Roberta. I had planned to ignore your ill-thought out comments as I have no wish to start an online disagreement with anyone, least of all someone who completely missed my points (deliberately or ignorantly?) and tried to put words into my mouth. But I feel compelled to correct you on just one point because I don't want others to feel smeared by your criticisms of me. You say that I am "the type of Muslim most Americans fear". Sorry that I apparently frightened you as I made no threats. And sorry to burst your bubble - I'm a Christian. A shame you aren't. (that was mean of me, but I couldn't resist) So I'll give you a little gift. I know you won't be able to keep yourself from attacking me and this email, so go ahead and get it all out of your little system. I won't respond to you again.

Donna

I apologize that my last post has somehow duplicated itself. I've emailed Q asking that the duplicate be removed.

Marilyn Yocum

Echochamber. Our penchant for it is indeed disturbing.

Mike

Jeez Donna. You say you're 63 and act like 12. You apparently have some valuable life experience and views you wish to share but then say this:

"And sorry to burst your bubble - I'm a Christian. A shame you aren't. (that was mean of me, but I couldn't resist)"

Thanks for making all Christians look childish. Claim to follow Jesus and then, in the same paragraph, behave nothing like him.

Roberta obviously misread you, I understand but she also quoted you directly; statements such as, "Some of the posts are obviously from hate-filled bigots spewing their mean-spirited comments like acid." OK, I guess stating that I disagree greatly with what the Quran has to say about Christians makes me a hate-filled bigot. Nice.

Having read (in context) the Quran and verses regarding Jews and Christians, poly-thiests (according to Muslims, Christinas fall into this group due to a misunderstanding regarding the Trinity), and other non-believers, the Quran does not paint a very good picture for us. And forget calling Jesus the Son of God, that is just right out wrong. So much for the cross, The Trinity, and salvation because it is just not part of the big picture of the Quran.

If Sufi Islam were the majority view, it might be a little more tolerant. But it isn't. Sunni, Shia, and Wahadism are the prevelant views and there does not seem to be any signs of them diminishing.

"So I'll give you a little gift. I know you won't be able to keep yourself from attacking me and this email, so go ahead and get it all out of your little system. I won't respond to you again."

Hey, disagree all you want but actually disagree with substance instead of the playground antics, name-calling, and passive-agressive drama.

Donna

Mike, you are absolutely right. I behaved very badly and I wish to apologize to both you and to Roberta. Not for my point of view which I stand by 100%. But allowing myself to lose my temper the way I did was childish and if it makes you or Roberta feel any better, my conscience has been bothering me. So again, please understand. I stand by everything I said in my first email. But my childish outburst of anger in my second was totally uncalled for and I do apologize to both of you.

Roger

I have recently been introduced to your web sites and have spent a good amount of time reading and listening to the information you are putting out. After reading this explanation of your invitation to discuss with Imam Feisal, I am left with a couple of questions. First of all, if you think it is important to dialogue with this Imam to undersatnd his thinking, is it not equally important to dialogue with Terry Jones to understand his thinking? (I am not endorseing Terry Jones) Will you invite him to your next session? Secondly, when you dialogue with Imam Feisal will you leave him with the knowledge that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that there is no way to the Father but through Him? Jesus did enter the homes of tax collectors. He did sit with sinners. But he did not "dialogue". He spoke truth into their lives. I commend you for your desire to sit with Imam Feisal, now I pray that you will have the courage to share with him the truth of God's Word, that he is lost in sin and that Jesus offers him forgiveness through His shed blood on the cross. Share with him that you and I were no different than he is before we were saved by God's grace. The difference between a sinner and a redeemed sinner is that the first is lost and will spend eternity out of the presence of God, the latter is forgiven and has eternal life in Christ.

mike

preach on ot preach on. Lets face facts love will not work on everyone.